It’s about a lot more than a ballpark
http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/16938720.htm
From the article:
"What if Jason Frier and Chris Schoen of Hardball Capital know exactly what they’re talking about, if only because, well, they’ve got a little experience in these matters? What happens if they actually learned something about all this from the 50 or so cities – yes, 50 – they visited in doing their research?"
"I understand why people are skeptical about this Harrison Square business, and only part of it’s because skepticism is this city’s natural condition"
"I’ve listened to Frier and Schoen, and I’ve seen what using a ballpark as a fulcrum has done in other cities whose demographics aren’t much different from Fort Wayne’s, and nothing they’re saying rings false. If you want to revitalize a downtown, this is how you do it: Not just by building a ballpark, but by building a ballpark designed for multiple uses and then integrating it with other development."
"If traffic’s such an issue, why wasn’t it 40 or so years ago, when people used to come downtown for everything and did it on a street grid far less accommodating to traffic flow? Can anyone explain that? And can anyone explain how this is not a good thing for this city?"
Tuesday, March 20, 2007
Ben Smith On Square
Posted by scott spaulding at 3/20/2007 08:28:00 AM
Labels: Downtown development, Harrison Square
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21 comments:
Great article by Ben Smith. How refreshing it is to read an article focused on progressive and positive ideas for our city. On a side note, after the recent, sold-out Goo Goo Dolls concert last Wednesday night at the Embassy, I would have gladly gone for a late-night drink/appetizer if a restaurant was located near by. How convenient it would have been to walk to a casual dining restaurant located in the new retail section that is to accompany Harrison Square.
Andy-
You must be either very lazy or you don't know the city that you are criticizing. You would have gone for a drink after the Embassy if only there was a restaurant "nearby"?
Walking 300 feet to the bar at the Hilto would have been to demanding, I'm sure. Walking 3 or 4 blocks to the 412 club? Out of the question! 3 0r 4 blocks for coffee and dessert at Starbucks? Oh, that sounds exhausting after 2 hours on your butt at the Embassy.
A two miute car ride to Park Place, Oyster Bar, Hall's or Club Soda, all of which provide parking within feet of the door? Not "nearby" enough for your big night out. Henri's, Paula's or O'sullivan's? Well, now we are talking 3 or 4 minutes away. No way!
But if we build 30,000 square feet of retail, and if it doesn't sit empty like the 60,000 square feet of empty retail within two blocks of the Embassy, and if we attract a "casual dining restaurant, I'm sure you will be a late night regular.
The Hilton bar is rarely open after 10, Anonymous.
And you are right that there ARE places to go but the point is that people need to know they exist and how to get to them. You cannot see the 412 Club from the Embassy, and perhaps Andy wanted something a bit stronger than a latte to drink.
I think you should give Andy a break. For all you know he DID go to Henry's, Paula's or O's for a beverage but I think he was hoping to WALK somewhere.
The Hilton bar is almost always open after 10 when there is a show at the Embassy. Andy might even have met a Goo Goo there had he stopped by.
And maybe people who don't know the 412 Club is downtown, where it has been for at least 20 freaking years, ought to be a little slower in declaring what is or is not "progressive and positive" since they don't know squat about what is actually going on. Stating there is no place for a drink/appetizer "nearby" to trhe Embassy is either a product of ignorance or a willingness to say anything to shill for this stadium.
We, too, were at the Goo Goo Dolls concert last Wednesday. We are downtown supporters, whether it be Paula's, Henry's, Park Place, or the Oyster Bar. However, all locations are driving distance (not by a lot, but still I need to get into my car). Believe me, I'm not afraid to walk and for that very reason I support retail, condos, restaurants and yes, a stadium to the downtown area. I've had opportunity to live in several different vibrant cities and all of which had a variety of restaurants and attractions within their inner core. This is something FW is truly missing.
A second hotel and more conventions may provide support for another restaurant/bar. Condos, if filled, might do the same. The baseball stadium? Maybe a Chucky Cheese, but most likely just a few more cars at the Taco Bell drive-thru.
what a great piece by Ben Smith. He should be commended
Adam W
Great piece by Ben Smith.
You give 'em hell anonymous...
Bud,
Tell the people in Dayton, OH that a single A ballpark would only attract a Chucky Cheese or a few more people at Taco Bell.
I'll tell the people in East St. Louis, where the stadium is alone in the middle of a field.
By the way, where were all you people when they wanted to put a stadium downtown instead of renovate the coliseum? We'll be paying for that mistake for the next 50 years.
I don't quite get the first part of your comment but to answer the second part of the question I was finishing high school, focused on college and not too interested in Fort Wayne politics.
So are you saying that the Memorial Coliseum should have been built downtown?
The most compelling argument against the downtown arena (circa 2001?) was that it was an 11th hour effort, with no planning or time to plan a good project. (Plus it assumed mostly public financing - although the Coliseum expansion was publicly financed, too....)
So, the City creates a general plan, the plan sparks the interest of a private developer, the City and the developer begin negotiating a deal that will be about 50% private, 50% public and include not only an entertainment facility but residential AND the retail stores that everyone wants....and the opponents don't like THAT, either.
Sigh.
11th hour, no planning, hmmm, that sounds vaguely familiar.
I was all for the arena downtown. If anybody's ever been to Grand Rapids, it completely transformed that city.
Let's stop the bickering and focus on the real heroes: the people who actually suffered through Ben Smith's junior high term paper-esque writing style.
Rest assured, that as soon as the Downtown Arena would have gotten any sort of momentum, the Sylvesters of the world would have been fighting it with everything they had. We would have heard all of the same arguments: What are we going to do with the current coliseum? etc etc. Its "economic re-arrangement" etc etc.
I was at the center of that debate, and I remember one complaint was that we would not have room for the circus elephants. Figure that one out.
Sam T.
Kudos anonymous. I'd drop my opposition to the stadium if I never had to read that blowhard's stilted, pompous writing ever again,
Or, to put it in faux Smith-speak:
Never again. Not ever. That's what they said. Never. Not in the cold Indiana winter when the basketball runs hot. No. Not then. Not on a warm Summer night when the Wizard's hitting turned cold like imitation maple syrup on day old hot cakes. No. Not even then. They meant never. Never again.
Anonymous,
we may disagree on Harrison Square, but this post is an absolute classic.
I frequently get through Mr. Smith's articles and just have to give up one or two paragraphs in. I find myself yelling "SAY IT" "Just Say it"
Congrats on a masterpiece.
Merle
Sam Talarico:
As you know I have been active in local politics for the last couple of years.
Please name three projects that I have opposed publicly that you feel were a good idea...
Just three Sam...
"The Sylvesters of the World..."
What a quote...
Mike Sylvester
Mike,
I know it is hard to believe, but I have not been spending much time the last couple years following your opinion.
Given your approach on this project, I feel pretty comfortable guessing that you would have been an outspoken opponent of the Downtown Arena in 2001.
Sam T.
Mike,
Don't be so sensative. You should be happy that your councilman was listening to you; and understands your point. You know he's right. A downtown arena is economic re-arrangement, as much, if not more than the stadium. While the stadium would be built to permit additional uses, I can't imagine a downtown arena much more versatile than the coliseum.
Regardless, Sam makes a valid point. Many of those that oppose the stadium, do so, because they'd prefer a downtown arena. Notwithstanding the fact that nobody has stepped up to say they'd want to build a multi-sport complex downtown, that idea would face similar opposition as the stadium. There are certain transitive arguments that would apply to almost any downtown revitalization project: parking, traffic, downtown crime, economic re-arrangement, etc. The result is stagnation.
In short, he makes a valid point. Be happy that your point was made such that Sam recognizes you for it. He just disagrees. So do I, for what it's worth.
Barranda:
It is just Sam being Sam. He cannot help it.
I was just curious if he could point to anything that would lead him to his statement and he proved me right.
Many of the Harrison Square supporters do not care how much it costs, what assumptions are made, etc. Many just blindly want to do "something."
City development requires City Planning which we do not have.
I do not understand why many Harrison Square supporters do not try to influence City Council to enact measures that would actually spur investment Downtown rather then pour more money into Downtown while allowing developers to build whatever and wherever they wish...
Mike Sylvester
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