Is stadium a downtown savior?
One councilman says public dollars could be better spent elsewhere.
http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/fortwayne/news/local/16980915.htm
From the article:
"According to figures agreed upon by Shoaff and city officials, about $42 million in public money earmarked for the project (including interest) could be used for other projects downtown and elsewhere"
"Talarico says it’s misleading to include interest payments in the debate, which increases the percentage of public funds needed for the project. “When you buy a $150,000 house, you don’t talk about a $400,000 house,” he said."
"Greg Leatherman, the city’s assistant director of community development, said developing a concentrated area downtown will spur additional development in ways isolated projects would not. And a baseball stadium, he said, will do that most effectively by drawing thousands of people downtown. If council does not approve Harrison Square, he said, $16 million in tax credits approved by the state for downtown projects could expire by the end of the year."
"In 2004, the estate of Joan Kroc, wife of McDonald’s founder Ray Kroc, rejected the local Salvation Army’s bid for a 51-acre downtown community center that would have included an ice rink, indoor track and field center, pool, performing arts facility and other features."
Tuesday, March 27, 2007
Council Schism
Posted by scott spaulding at 3/27/2007 12:27:00 PM
Labels: Bill Bean, City Council, Greg Leatherman, Hardball Capital, Harrison Square, John Shoaff, Sam Talarico, Tim Pape
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20 comments:
The $16 million in tax credits that "could expire by the end of the year" are coming up again as one of the reasons for the big "rush-job" on Harrison Square, per Greg Leatherman. Were these the tax credits approved by the state for use in aquiring land for the Kroc/Salvation Army project which fell through in 2004? Remember that "tax credits" like these, when used by one Indiana taxpayer, will have to be made up by all us other Indiana taxpayers - or else our state universities will be shorted and tuition goes up to make up the loss. And this make-up applies to both individual and corporate income taxpayers - so the net result is the little guy pays.
Is it possible that another reason for the "rush-job" is because the county lease argeement with the Wizards runs out after the 2007 season?
See you tonight at council? John K.
How about this for a reason to "rush" John K?
In real life Deals/Negotiations move pretty fast. Hardball and the City of Fort Wayne are negotiating a deal. Deals do not just hang around indefinitely. Deals die if they linger on too long.
Further, what is your definition of "rush"?. My god John K., this deal has been discussed for months!!
Most of the time, when people request delays its because they want more time to kill a project. How much time do you want John K.?
John, I assume you will be the first guy in line to support spending $12 million to renovate the existing Memorial Stadium so that we can keep minor league baseball in fort wayne.
Sam T.
16M is from the CRED agreement.
Sam - Please provide the facts covering the "$12 Million". Randy Brown has publicly said that what the Wizards desire can be done for around $5 million - plus the county already has $9.7 million excess in the food & beverage fund which was established as a temporary tax to, among other things, pay the costs of Memorial Stadium. Wow, a way to finance the improvements without any more borrowing! What a unique concept. John K.
So John you are for a Food and beverage tax, but not CEDIT?
So Fort Wayne almost had a waterpark/natatorium/youth sports complex and it fell through? Imagine that. Fort Wayne wasn't chosen for a reason.
Where are these types of developers now?
Shouldn't they be aware that Fort Wayne has been interested since at least 2004? Fort Wayne offered land, etc. and we are still asking for waterpark/natatorium/youth sports developers.
Hardball is paying $5 million towards something that they will not own but will still pay operating costs towards as well.
anonymous-
I think the Salvation Army/Kroc center is an example of how opportunities for downtown Fort Wayne development occur infrequently.
Add to this the missed opportunities in the past for a downtown expressway and arena.
Last unknown anonymous - You don't think that Hardball is paying for expenses at Memorial Stadium now ? Just what else is the lease covering ? It sure isn't "recovery of capital" for the county ! John K.
com'on John
So you are for a Food and beverage tax, but not CEDIT?
I have never said I am against CEDIT. But I am against using CEDIT tax dollars to close a perfectly-good baseball stadium. John K.
Another thing, Sam - How can anyone "negctiate a deal" with Hardball when you do not have approval from your own council? You can discuss - but if someone makes an offer that they can't get passed by council- we have a serious problem. John K.
John K, I am pretty sure that people may have thought of your "timing" issue already. Maybe the deal will have a condition in it that it needs to be approved by City Council? Just a guess.
John, I never knew you were such a big propenent of the food and beverage taxes? I thought you said "taxes are taxes"? Are you softening in your position? Or does the "Taxes are Taxes" argument only apply to projects you dont like?
Sam
Sam - My statement was "property taxes are property taxes" or do you not remember on purpose? John K.
John - don't do a 'rush-job' on your comments.
HA, I love it John!
Harrison Square = improperly funded State Schools
There's a new argument, does that mean Harrison Square has a direct relationship with the other 49 states' schools having increased tuition?
Oh John you are incorrigible.
No - I am a firm believer in states rights. The other 49 have their own problem "Harrison Squares" John K.
John, I keep hearing you say we have a "perfectly good baseball stadium". Go to other cities our size like Grand Rapids, Lansing, Dayton, and check out their stadiums. Then comeback and tell me we have a perfectly good stadium. The stadiums in Lansing and Dayton have proved to be great catalysts for their downtowns.
John, I'm failing to see your logic.
When did we get into a violation of states' rights?
Now are you saying:
Harrison Square = Federal Government encroachment + tuition increase?
Good point Joe S. It was recently posted on this blog that Fort Wayne has the 10th "best" stadium (out of 14 teams) in the league behind:
Appleton, WI
Cedar Rapids, IA
Davenport, IA
Dayton, OH
Geneva, IL
Grand Rapids, MI
Lansing, MI
Midland, MI
Peoria, IL
Also, other parks like Burlington, IA & Clinton, IA have received $4+ million each in renovations in the past 2 years when not one penny has been used to renovate Memorial Stadium in at least 10 years.
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